These two Notre Dame professors-Father McBrien a noted theological liberal, Mr. McInerny a noted theological conservative-are old antagonists, and the exchanges are sometimes heated. But even if they sometimes forget that they are speaking to a lay audience, we get a good sense of how the Catholic Church promulgates-and argues about-its doctrines. Father McBrien: "In my course-and I teach over a hundred students every year-I never once would get up and say the Pope is wrong about birth control." Mr. Mclnerny: "Are you saying it now?" Father McBrien: "No, I'm just-I disagree with the teaching on birth control." Mr. Mclnerny: "Why? Because he's wrong..?" Father McBrien: "We shouldn't let the leaders off scot-free-not just popes, but also bishops... How effectively are they teaching? Why is there such a wide disconnect from so many people..?" Mr. Mclnerny: "I find the present Pope to be a magnificent teacher, and it seems to me when he does speak, people understand him very easily and follow him... When he came on his first visit [to America] it was a magnificent occasion... Immediately after he left there were people who were undercutting what he said and saying, 'Well, he doesn't understand the United States...' So the impact of the man, it seems to me, is sapped right at the roots."