After the debate there was still plenty more to say, and these shows move along briskly. LT: "Why is it, in the entire industrial world, everybody has at least what they think is a progressive income tax-- They're all wrong? ..." WFB: "It's a hangover from the dogmatic socialism from which people have been weaned away as a result of the excesses of the Soviet Union. I think it's fair to say that Sweden, certainly England, certainly France, to a certain extent Germany, are pulling back." ... GM: "We've been living under the progressive income tax ever since 1916. American capitalism is doing just fine. We don't have socialism, we don't have Marxism." WFB: "I don't think it is. The same number of people who were poor twenty years ago are poor now--13 to 14 per cent. Something is not working." GM: "Well, you're not going to lift them out of poverty by a tax break for the rich." WFB: "Yes, we are. This is our big surprise. We're going to do that."