Mrs. Rivlin's book had startled the public-policy community by recommending that the Federal Government withdraw from education, housing, highways, and several other areas; however, it also proposed having the Feds take over all health-care funding. This vigorous discussion helps us focus on just what we mean by "federalism" at the end of the 20th century. WFB: "As an economist, are you worried about the increasing size of the wedge ... which is the difference between what it costs me to hire you and what you get? ... It costs an employer 35 per cent more than its employees get because of Social Security, medical insurance, sick leave, etc.--and that, of course, decreases our competitive mobility." AR: "I think one of the real competitive problems is the high cost of health care in the United States." WFB: "Sure. GM pays more for health care than for steel." AR: "That's one of the reasons why I think we have to face up to this health-cost problem and get it down. It's not just that people are hurting, it's that our economy is hurting."