The parties' national conventions had both been highly charged, and Mr. Buckley raises the question of what lies beneath the rhetoric. JL: "I would say that family values is part of the social issue, and it is an issue that is not gaining any salience in this campaign, I think because of the excesses of the Republican convention. Chattering about witchcraft and demonizing homosexuals is not the way to present this issue, but--" WFB: "It's a good start, isn't it?" JL: "No, I don't think so. No, I think to have Newt Gingrich jumping up and down about Woody Allen is not the way to open up the family issue." Mr. Gigot concurs: "It began to be perceived ... by a lot of people as, 'Anyone who is a homosexual, for example, is not welcome in our party,' rather than making it an issue that, say, 'Should you subsidize through the tax code somehow, or through affirmative-action programs, the homosexual lifestyle?'" A good-natured and productive conversation that moves from family values to the abortion debate to the way Democratic convention delegates were chosen.