Mr. Kinsley launches the discussion with the Clarence Thomas confirmation hearings; after some wrangling over how good or bad Judge Thomas's testimony was, we settle down into a productive examination of affirmative action and the taboos surrounding it. SLC: "The President, of course, said that race played no role in the selection process, that Clarence Thomas was the single most qualified individual. I don't think many people took that claim seriously. I think the President probably could have done a lot of work toward binding up some of the racial wounds in America had he said what was probably true: 'There were many outstanding candidates, people I thought would have done a good job, and I used race as one means of sorting among them.'... You know, the President does have a bit of a problem there since he was engaging in exactly what he opposes--" WFB: "That's right." SLC: "--but that's not a knock on Clarence Thomas.... The President seemed to be under the impression that unless he could make a case that race played no role in the selection, there was something wrong with the selection process."