Actually, by the time of this show, HEW was no more (President Carter had

succeeded in his mission of splitting it up into the Departments of Education and of Health and Human Services), but the principle remained the same. Host and guest agree that there are serious problems in America--including severe inflation and second-generation welfare mothers--but how to deal with them? Keep the current, admittedly flawed, system and tinker around the edges? Or change it radically, in the knowledge that many people would be helped but many, at least in the short run, hurt? JAC: "What I focused on most in the welfare problem was ... the Aid to Families with Dependent Children program, that piece of welfare most odious to the population at large--3 million mothers and 8 million children. Most of those mothers are either teenagers or 30-to-40-year-old grandmothers, who are basically on the second generation, and what do you do

about them? It's easy to say, 'Put people to work,' but putting those people to work is an incredibly difficult problem."