The hour drags a bit, as Jimmy Carter's former human-rights chief seems unused to having to defend her positions. But there are some good bits. WFB: "When Khrushchev came to America for the first time, you will remember, Eisenhower did not permit himself to smile in public, which was very difficult for somebody whose smile was as congenital as Jimmy Carter's." ... PD: "I don't think you can find a people anywhere in the world who are perfectly satisfied or even reasonably satisfied to continue to live in conditions as they were fifty years ago.... Those people are going to have a say in their government. They are going to want to have a say and they are going to struggle until they get it. What's going to happen then, if we have been the ones supporting, backing up, helping in every way possible, having warm relations with the dictator who had the foot on the neck? I just don't think it's in our interest."