"I should like to begin," says WFB, "by asking Miss McCarthy wherein America especially let her down." MM: "Oh, I didn't know this was the question we were going to discuss." WFB: "Are you prepared?" MM: "Well, I dislike self-pity. So that I would never speak in terms of 'America let me down.' Let itself down." WFB: "Well, then--let other people down." MM: "Yes, well,... it seems to me that there's been a great change in America, oh, starting sometime after the Second World War. That the quality of people in politics ... deteriorated; that when you see, nowadays, some leftover from, let's say, the Roosevelt Administration, it's, you know, it's like seeing some old cathedral pine standing there... I think that capitalism is the most successful deteriorator of society that's been known yet. I've never been in Russia but I have been in Poland ... and what strikes you about those countries, is, you know, how refreshing they are because they're so backward and reminds me very much ... of my childhood.... I think any logical conservative like you, Mr. Buckley would have to be anti-capitalist. If you're not anti-capitalist, I don't believe you're a conservative."