In Dr. Barnard's first transplant, as Mr. Buckley puts it, "The operation, as they say, was successful, but the patient died. Not so the second transplant, who is alive today, drinking beer, writing his autobiography, and thinking kind thoughts about the venturesome Dr. Barnard." The conversation is a bit slow getting started, but host and guest eventually engage in a rich discussion touching on what fields of knowledge should inform life-or-death decisions, and what is the scientist's responsibility qua scientist and qua human being. CB: "I'll put it to you this way. Say, for example, that we from the time that we were born, we were used to the idea that when somebody dies, his organs are removed for transplantation. And at this stage, 1968, we've changed this idea now to the idea that when a patient is dead he's buried and his organs will be eaten up by the worms. We would revolt to that new idea, wouldn't we?"