WFB and his guest-an old friend and adversary from undergraduate days and now a Presbyterian minister-agree that the Christian Church in all its denominations is in trouble, increasingly ignored by the young and regarded as irrelevant. Mr. Coffin, however, argues that this is largely because the churches have not taken up the cause of civil rights for black Americans; Mr. Buckley maintains that it has more to do with their ignoring the oppression behind the Iron Curtain. One sample: WSC: "I'll tell you, Bill, why James Baldwin is down on the Church. And Louis Lomax and also many of the rest of [the black leaders]. Because they have told me, 'Every time we see that cross we think, There's a place where they call us niggers.' The primary problem of the Church in our time is not that people don't believe in God, it's that the prosperous Church in our time has failed to make common cause with the sufferers of this world."